The White Rabbit podcast turns the big five-oh. Congratulations to TWRP!

Inspired by a comment he heard from Chris Do of TheFutur.com, Alper wonders how presentations would change if we stopped using the vocabulary of obligation to describe them (“I have to give a presentation tomorrow”), and instead used the vocabulary of opportunity (“I get to give a presentation tomorrow”).

Episode transcript:

M.K.:
This is the 50th episode of our podcast. I think it’s the 50th episode, right?

A.R.:
I think so, yeah. Yeah. Well, who better to know than us?

M.K.:
Yeah. So, ah, ah. This is our 50th episode. So our little podcast has grown up into an old man. Now.

A.R.:
Congratulations. Yep.

M.K.:
Yes. Congratulations. Congratulations to the White Rabbit. Before the before the podcast, we were talking about it because we’ve been doing presentation training for years now. And so before the podcast we were talking about some, some of the things that we’ve noticed in the in the trainings. And I thought it was interesting that many of the things that we were talking about and many of the things that people have asked us in the previous years have very little or nothing to do with the technical side of of the podcast or the technical side of the presentation.

M.K.:
They’re they’re not about PowerPoint, you know, they’re not about, you know, how do you decide to design the slides and stuff like that. They’re they’re about other things. And one of the things that we were talking about before the podcast was this Chris Doe comment. What was it that he was talking about?

A.R.:
Yeah, I was watching a video of him this morning and I as as I was watching it, I realized I love this phrase that he said, I’m not going to repeat word by word because I don’t remember word by word. But the general idea was, what about looking at things that you have to do as things that you get to do?

A.R.:
Mm. Yeah. For example. And it got me to thinking in, in most of the trainings I hear when I have to make a presentation. Yeah, I need to speak to a manager. What I need to be standing in front of two people and talking to them. It got me to thinking that what if we look at those opportunities as well?

A.R.:
What they are opportunities rather are instead of I couldn’t say the word rather instead of obligations. What if what if we changed the mindset to look at those things and yeah, it got me to thinking that about presentation. So because I think it’s very easy to look at an upcoming presentation as an obligation, especially if it is handed down for you, let’s say, by your manager, by your boss or whatever.

A.R.:
But at the same time it can be a huge opportunity to, well, you know, shine in the company, be on the radar of the management or the board of directors, etc.. So yeah, that’s what got to my mind to see things as opportunities rather than obligations.

M.K.:
That’s a good point because, you know, when I think back on the trainings that we’ve done before, when I think back on, I mean, we’ve got years of of trainings under our belt. And when I think back on those so many times, if I had a dollar for every time somebody said, Oh, I’ve got to do a presentation, I’ve got to do a presentation, my manager is making me do a presentation, people are making me do a presentation.

M.K.:
I’ve got to do a presentation. It’s totally the language of obligation. And it seems to me that that way of approaching a presentation would also infect your audience too. Because if you go into a presentation, think of it in terms of an obligation, even if you’re trying not to act like it, even if you’re trying to get your audience excited about the subject, your audience is still going to pick up on the fact that you’re treating this all this presentation as an obligation and they’re going to treat sitting there as an obligation.

M.K.:
So it not just affects it doesn’t just affect the spirit of the person giving the presentation. It would affect the spirit of the of the people in the audience, too. So it would affect the whole room. Tell me more about this. But about, by the way, a Christo. For for those of you who don’t know, it’s pretty much everybody’s going to know the name.

M.K.:
Christo is an Internet famous personality, but I think the spelling of his last name is Deo, right? Is that correct?

A.R.:
Yeah.

M.K.:
And. And the company or it’s a podcast, right? It’s it’s and it’s called the Future Icon Future without an E. So F-you, t u r icon, The Future icons.

A.R.:
Excited about the podcast? I subscribe to his YouTube channel or the day the Future’s subject. We do a channel YouTube channel. So that’s that’s how I follow him.

M.K.:
So yeah, if you’re a listener and you are not already following Christo, just go to Google. Google the future without in the future without an E and you’re going to end up in the right place. You’ll probably be you know. Yeah. Result number one. So anyway, tell me more. What was what was he talking about?

A.R.:
Well, it was basically talking it he was talking about the sales process and I think the other person was talking about, well, eventually I will need to talk about pricing and I have to talk about this. I have to talk about that. And he pointed out that the way he chose his words, the other speaker, the way he chose his words, he gave a lot of information about how he approached the whole topic.

A.R.:
And of course, I think this is applicable to many other things in life, not only the sales process in which I can understand that talking about the price can be and not so, you know, it can be a process, It can be a process during the entire conversation where you may not be looking forward to it, but it’s necessary.

A.R.:
And he was talking about looking at it from a different perspective, as you know, getting to talk about pricing, getting to talk, getting to work with the client instead of having to work or having or having the obligation, which got me immediately thinking about, well, it’s maybe as applicable, if not more in in the professional presentation environment, because I mean, I’m sure have heard this many times as well.

A.R.:
A the people we work with, they have to stand in front of the company board, for example, in an annual meeting, and they are nervous, they’re excited and not always in a good way. And they may actually be looking for ways to get out, get out of it, to not be in that situation, not being that room, talking to the top managers of the company.

A.R.:
And I think that’s perfectly understandable. I mean, in future episodes, we may talk about fears that may come into play, hesitations or, you know, even the idea of being afraid of making a mistake or looking stupid or anything like that. But we cannot we can all talk about we can talk about all these things, but at the same time, this, this encounter that people may want to avoid speaking in front of the top managers of their of their company can be seen as a great opportunity to put yourself on these people’s radars.

A.R.:
Yeah. So in essence, instead of thinking that or feeling that you have this obligation to speak to these people, you actually get to speak to these people. I mean, these people are probably people with very bizarre agendas. And it would be for you and me, probably it would be practically impossible to put ourselves to the top management of maybe the companies that we work with, but the people we work with in these companies, they can actually get to put themselves in front of those people and make a positive impact, a positive contribution to their own position or the work that they do.

A.R.:
So yes, I think it will. It could create a huge difference between having to do something or thinking like feeling like you have to do this presentation and switching that with, Hey, I get to do this presentation. So it’s an opportunity.

M.K.:
One thing that you mentioned, you mentioned the the sales conversation or the pricing conversation and being a freelance presentation trainer, I have many of those and I’ve always approached the pricing conversation with an element of fear and nervousness. And I just notice that I would totally use the vocabulary of I’ve got to have the pricing conversation now. And if you instead just refer and by the way, just just as as a side note here I am totally not one of those, you know, woo woo, you know, be kind and the universe will smile on you and everything will be great.

M.K.:
I definitely not one of those people, but if you just make the vocabulary change of instead of saying, I’ve got to have this pricing conversation, just just saying I get to have this pricing conversation, it would it totally flips the script because instead of now having this adversarial conversation where you’re saying one number and they’re trying to usually probably maybe talk you down and you’re wondering how low to go.

M.K.:
Instead, you see it as there’s there’s this minor conversation that I’ve got to have. And and it’s so fun offering my help to this person. And this is just one of the things that we have to do or one of their it is, again, one of these things that we have to do, one of these things that we get to do on the road to me helping this person.

M.K.:
So it totally just that just that vocabulary change that you’re talking about. Totally flip the script.

A.R.:
Yeah. And I think it has an amazing power in, in seeing things differently. And especially in this case, I mean, you and me, you and I are on the same boat and I used to avoid those conversations as well. I used to not address the pricing issue. I know that now we’re not talking about presentation training, we’re not talking about presentations, but we’re talking about something in more general in the sense that we face in the sales conversation.

A.R.:
And we can talk about this in future episodes in more detail, but even even in the video, he was saying how a large majority of the people tend to avoid or feel uncomfortable during these conversations, but they are a necessary part of the conversation. So it’s obligatory that we do that. I mean, it’s it’s mandatory that we had those conversations in the sales process.

A.R.:
So there could be ways to feel more comfortable about them, to see them as opportunities by making small changes in your mind. And I think one of the one of the first steps of doing that is, is this looking at things from a different perspective.

M.K.:
So, okay, so let’s take this into the realm of the cubicle worker, let’s say a supply chain manager. Let’s take this into the realm of the supply chain manager, and it’s Thursday and the supply chain managers boss folks her head over the cubicle wall and says, You’ve got to give a presentation on X, Y, Z tomorrow. So the supply chain manager, instead of seeing this presentation as, Oh my God, I’ve got to give this piece of work tomorrow.

M.K.:
So the supply chain manager How could the supply chain managers see it? I guess the supply chain manager could say could see it as I get to tomorrow, I get to describe this beautiful idea, this vision that I have in front of these people. These people are going to be sitting in front of me and I get to describe my vision for how I want the world to be.

M.K.:
And maybe as a supply chain manager, you don’t get to spend 100% of your time talking about your vision for the world. Maybe you only get to spend 10% of the rest of the time. You’re talking about things that you find boring, like, you know, quarterly results, you know, numbers of truck trips made or forklift trips forklift miles driven or something like that.

M.K.:
So you’re talking about stuff that maybe you don’t find that interesting, but at least 10% of your presentation is the way you want to see the world. And that and just by describing your or seeing your presentation as an opportunity, suddenly it shifts your focus onto that 10% that you love and want to do. Is that is so is that our supply chain manager could use this?

A.R.:
I think so. But with the full disclosure that I’m not looking at the world through rose colored glasses and I’m not saying that we should just see every single business chore as an opportunity to enjoy life or create a positive impact on people. No, I’m not on that boat. Okay, But when I think about your question right now, I also get the sensation.

A.R.:
I also get the idea, not the sensation. The idea of, well, if my boss is asking me to present, I think that’s a good thing. I think that’s a good thing. At least she trusts my opinion. She trusts my work, Even if this is something that she’s dumping on me. Let’s say let’s let’s not be so optimistic and say, well, you know what this was?

A.R.:
This was her obligations. She doesn’t want to do it. And she’s dumping on me. Dumping it on me. Okay? Even in that case, I am going to be the one to stand in front of people and talk about the topic independent from the level of boring ness that the topic may bring. It will be an opportunity. Like you said, maybe to talk about boring stuff 80%, but in 20%.

A.R.:
If there’s something that I want to share, I can just use this opportunity. Okay. Again, it’s not the easiest. I understand that. It’s not the easiest thing to see. Everything that you saw as an obligation until now to see them as opportunities. But I think we can start small and try to see the silver lining, even if it is something that we thought as an obligation until until this moment.

A.R.:
Okay.

M.K.:
Well said. Well said. All right. So it’s about time to to wrap it up for today.

A.R.:
So we’ll take this day. I think I have the feeling that we’ll dig deeper on this in the future episodes.

M.K.:
Yeah, we are definitely going to dig deeper into this subject on on future episodes. So thank you very much. Alper and I will talk to you next time.

A.R.:
Thank you.

M.K.:
Bye bye.