Episode transcript:

Matt:
So, so, Alper, we owe these people two things. One is we owe them an example story structure, a couple examples, story structures. And the other is we owe them punching holes into my no visual design theory. So which one would you like to do today?

Alper:
I think I think let’s start with the second one and then we can go to the story structure, because I spent this whole week trying to come up with ideas to punch hole holes. More than one. Excellent. In your proposition. Well, I couldn’t find many, except for maybe one or two minor ones. And I want to throw them at you and see how you respond to them.

Alper:
Okay. Because I think proposition.

Matt:
And I sit in anticipation of lots of hole punching. I called an ambulance, and I’ve got one sitting outside right now. So I.

Alper:
Said, okay, it’s.

Matt:
I’m prepared. I’ve got an ambulance ready to take me to the hospital, so punch away.

Alper:
Okay. Okay. So like I said, it was a big, big proposition. And I took some time to think about it. The first thing that came to my mind was, okay, I understand that. I also agree with you when you said every presentation should be deliverable without using visuals. And then I thought about. Yeah, but what about technical presentations or presentations or where you’re informing people of something completely new that they will need to be able to follow you step by step, and they might easily get lost during the process if you’re not showing them something about where you were, where you are now, where you’re headed towards, and what are the steps to take.

Alper:
Hmm. Those are the things that I came up with that I wanted to share with you and ask What is your point on? Sure. And those kinds of presentations. Well, sure. You’re not. You’re not you’re you’re not in sport. You’re not aiming to inspire people or so. But you’re maybe aiming to inform them.

Matt:
Okay. So before we look at the various kinds of presentations, you know, technical, blah, blah, blah, I think the main determinant is time, you know, because the main question is if you have a technical problem or if you have a hardware problem or to avoid the word technical, since it’s kind of confusing, since we can also be talking about technical presentations.

Matt:
So if you have a hardware problem for example, if your video gives out, do you have time to recover in a two and a half minute presentation? The answer is no. In a four minute presentation. The answer is probably not in a 30 minute presentation or in a 45 minute presentation. The answer is probably yes. So even before you worry about, okay, I’m giving a technical presentation or I’m giving an inspirational presentation before you wander, before you start worrying about what kind of presentation you’re giving.

Matt:
Ask yourself, how much time do I have for the presentation? And that will tell you more about how much visual design there’s room for. To make any sense.

Alper:
It makes sense. So are you saying that if, for example, this is going to be a presentation for one hour and you would be talking about next year’s marketing strategies, are you saying that it is okay to use visuals in that and you will not be expected to be able to make the same presentations without without using any visuals?

Matt:
Yeah. So if you have a one hour presentation on a marketing plan, for example, or if you are presenting, if you have 45 minutes or an hour or something with, with an investor, then yeah, you use visuals and use good, good visuals. Get yourself some, some professional assistance. Don’t try to do it yourself with the with the existing PowerPoint clip art.

Matt:
So, so get some good visual design assistance. But but yeah you know 45 minutes or an hour presentation, you have time for stuff to go wrong. You have time. If your video crashes, you have time for to implement plan B or plan E, plan C or plan D or whatever it is. So, yeah, the longer the presentation, the more time you have to recover.

Matt:
And also you mentioned let’s let’s talk about technical presentations. In the technical presentation, it depends on who you’re talking to. You know, if you are giving a technical presentation, let’s say you are giving a presentation on updates about the building a bridge somewhere. Let’s say you’re building a bridge across a large river and you’re giving a status update about, you know, so who are you talking to?

Matt:
That’s that’s one of the main questions if you’re talking to if you’re talking to other technical people who are also involved and knowledgeable about building a large bridge, then you’re probably giving a shorter presentation and they are probably already aware of the concepts. So you have much less of a need for visual design. If you’re talking to a lay audience, you’re going to need more time and you’re going to need more visuals because they don’t understand.

Alper:
When you say Audience, are you talking with people who are not familiar with the matter?

Matt:
Yeah. By late audience, I mean, let’s say people like you and me, you know, people who are we’re not familiar with the engineering concepts involved. You know, when you’re we’re not even the acquisition of a steel beam. We’re not we’re not familiar with that concept. And so or we’re not familiar with how that’s done. We don’t know how who to pick up the phone and call to order a steel beam.

Matt:
We don’t know that kind of stuff. So yeah, you’re going to need more time and you’re going to need more visuals because they won’t be as familiar with the concept. When you say that, when you say to a technical person, a person who is deeply familiar with the construction of a bridge, if you say that we’re having problems acquiring enough steel beams, they immediately within seconds can figure out, okay, well, what does that mean?

Matt:
And they can run through. They can start running through the ramifications. They know what it’s going to affect. But if you’re talking to a layperson who doesn’t know anything about the construction of a bridge, then yeah, if you mentioned that we’re having problems getting steel beams, it’s going to take them a few minutes to figure out what that means.

Matt:
And so you’re going to need more time for your presentation and you’re going to need more visuals because you’re going to need to walk them through. They’re not going to know what to do with this information. We’re having a hard time acquiring steel beams. They’re not going to know what to do with that information. So they’re going to need you.

Matt:
They’re going to need some visual to help them walk through what to do.

Alper:
Okay. Okay. So to clarify things, are you saying because what was the proposition? The proposition was that you should be able to deliver a presentation without using any visual aids, right? Yes, correct. To confirm it in the beginning. Correct. Are you saying that are you saying that you should be able to do that in case a technical problem occurs?

Alper:
If something goes wrong? Or are you saying that for all presentation engagements and not speaking on it from a technical perspective, but also speaking from a from a more like philosophical perspective, let’s say? Are you saying that all interactions between people involving presentations should be able to be delivered without using visuals?

Matt:
Both I’m saying both. You need to know how to tell the story in case there’s a technical problem, because if your video breaks down or your PowerPoint crashes or your computer crashes or all the electricity goes out or whatever, you still need to be able to deliver your story. And so if you’re talking to a technical audience, you still need to be able to explain to that technical audience.

Matt:
If you have no electronics, you still need to be able to explain to that technical audience why acquiring bridge joints is causing problems. And if you’re talking to a non-technical audience or a lay audience, you still need to be able to explain to them how this is going to affect the building of the bridge. So, yes, one is that yes, I do mean that you need to be able to or you need to prepare yourself for a technical problem just for a hardware problem, just in case what happens.

Matt:
And also and by the way, what was what was the second one that I’m agreeing to? I forget.

Alper:
Well, you already agreed. So. Well, the first thought was, should you be able to deliver a presentation of that visuals in case something goes wrong and my second point was my second question that my points that I was trying to get to was, are you saying you should be able to deliver any presentation regardless of the existence of technical problems, any presentation you should be able to deliver without using visuals?

Alper:
Is that what you’re saying? Yeah.

Matt:
That is what I’m saying. And again, if it’s a long presentation, you’re going to need visuals more and people are going to expect visual, they’re going to expect visuals and they’re going to need visuals too. So you’re going to need the visuals. You still need to be able I mean, boring words combined with great visuals still equates to boring presentation.

Matt:
You need both need to provide. I agree. You need you need good words and you need good visuals. Everything needs to be good. Okay? So you can’t just have great visuals and combine them in. Let’s say that you’re, you’re giving a 45 minute presentation or a 60 minute presentation or whatever. You can’t just have great visuals and have boring words.

Matt:
So your words have to be good, your story has to be good anyway. So whether you have the visuals or not, you’ve still got to put the work into making the story Good.

Alper:
Okay, I’m going to push a little bit more because I don’t want to go out of business of designing slides. Okay, sure. I am the marketing manager hypothetical. I am the marketing manager of a multinational corporation and we’re towards the end of November and my boss, my manager is asking for a presentation on what I’m going to do next year.

Alper:
And also he or she is asking for the results of this year. So what I’m going to what am I going to talk about in this presentation? I’m going to talk about what we did during this year, what results we have achieved, what we make out of those results, and what our what will be our steps for for day and for the next year.

Alper:
Okay. To be to be totally blunt, are you saying that even that presentation I should be able to do without using visuals?

Matt:
Yes, you should be able to do it without usually using your visuals. You should.

Alper:
I was hoping you would say that. Well.

Matt:
Here I am. Here I am saying it. Yeah, I am. I am not. I am actually extreme. I’m not just offering some extreme words. So. So when you push, I will still be I will be.

Alper:
Devastated if you say more. In that case, you can use visuals. Please elaborate. Well.

Matt:
Sorry about that, because I am going to say that yes, you can use visuals in fact, you probably should use visuals. But your your story still needs to be it needs to be able to stand alone. You can’t just have good visuals to carry you through your inability to articulate yourself. If you can’t, I guess that’s the root of it is don’t depend on your visuals to carry you through your inability to articulate yourself.

Matt:
If you can’t articulate yourself, then you need to work on your presentation more. If you can’t articulate yourself, you don’t understand the concept well enough. If you can’t articulate yourself, you haven’t defined narrowly enough who you’re speaking to and what they care about.

Alper:
Okay, I agree with that. But at the same time, my manager wants to see numbers. Hmm.

Matt:
Yeah.

Alper:
So are you saying that I should write my story or my speech should be so good, so well, that I should be able to convey those without using visuals to.

Matt:
Know one of the one of the main rules that you need to follow in communications anywhere, in any form is that it’s good to push the envelope, but you have to stay in the envelope. You have to give people a little bit of what they’re expecting. If you just if you walk in there and you’re crazy and you blow out out of the water, all of their expectations, they’re going to stop listening to you.

Matt:
You’re going to have no credibility at all. So, yes, if your manager is expecting a graph with some numbers, you need to have a graph with some numbers. Your manager will be impressed if you’re able to handle a situation in which everything crashed, crashes, or your manager will be impressed if you’re able to handle the presentation. If you understand that concept so well that you can articulate them even without the visuals, your manager will be impressed.

Matt:
But still, even if you rock the words, you still have to meet the expectations. And if the expectations are that you have, you know, a graph with some numbers you need, that you need to have a graph with some numbers.

Alper:
Okay, So in the end, can we say you should be able to deliver any presentation without using any visuals as long as it is not expected from you that you use visuals and you should not use visuals as as a backup for your vault performance. Let’s say or not, not being able to. You shouldn’t use visuals as a crutch.

Alper:
Is that what you’re saying?

Matt:
You don’t use visuals as a crutch. If if you think I need some visuals to explain what I’m saying, I need some visuals. If you think to yourself, I need some visuals to make my point, I see that as a problem in yourself. See that as a challenge to yourself. I need to figure out how to articulate this better.

Matt:
I need to figure out how to explain this better so that I’m not using the visuals as a crutch. And we’re about to run out of time, not only with the podcast. Yeah, with the time that I’ve scheduled the ambulance. So, so. So let’s limit it to just another question or a couple of minutes and then we’ll then we’ll wrap up for today.

Alper:
For now, I think I’m good. I think we we came to a good point. The only thing is in the next episode we will move to give people the tools to to do that and maybe to because you said don’t use visuals as a backup for for something missing in the speech or in the story. And it’s it’s it’s going to be a good idea to give to talk about what you mean by that.

Alper:
So in the next episode, we’ll do that.

Matt:
Yeah, we’re definitely going to need to get we need to give these people some some advice that they can use to tell a story. Is not advice that you can use. So. So yeah, we definitely need to give these people a story to.

Alper:
I want to hear about that.

Matt:
Okay, it’s coming.

Alper:
So at the end we can still keep on designing slides. We can still remain in business. But yes, not to use the visuals or not preparing world enough to deliver a good story. What the presentation.

Matt:
Correct. Correct.

Alper:
All right, Matt. Well, it’s good talking to you. I like I like these conversations and looking forward to the next one. Thanks.

Matt:
Well, it was good talking to you, Alper. And I’m looking forward to it to talk to you later.

Alper:
All right. That good bye.

Matt:
Okay. Bye bye.