Alper goes into the traits he sees making for a successful client. They are 1. Recognizing the power of exceptional communications, 2. Understanding that this is not an overnight process, 3. Recognizing the fine line between persuasion and fit, and 4. Understanding that a “no” today is not a “no” forever.

Also, if someone knows how much a Lear Jet costs or what goes in a Mai Tai, please let us know.

Episode transcript:

Alper Rozanes
You’re listening to the White Rabbit conversations on the art of presenting in a rather noisy world. Your hosts are Matt Krauss and Alper are scientists. Matt helps leaders of international companies speak, write and present with confidence. Alper is a communications trainer and a startup investor with a diverse portfolio of companies in Barcelona. If you like this podcast, please share it with friends and colleagues. Now on to Matt and Alper for today’s conversation.

Matt Krause
Alper last week we were talking about Matt’s ideal client or the client who takes Matt’s work and does the best.

Matt Krause
And so today, we’re going to turn the tables and talk a little bit about Alper’s ideal client.

Alper Rozanes
My favorite topic.

Matt Krause
Yeah. And I was wondering, should we make this the client that Alper likes to deal with the most? Or is this about the client that takes Alper’s work, and has the most success with it?

Alper Rozanes
That’s a very good question. And I think they are intrinsically connected, I feel that they’re intrinsically connected.

Alper Rozanes
I would rely more heavily more heavier on the first one, like the client that I like working with the most. But I also see that it can, it can be really connected in a good way to the second part. And when I say that, I’m actually imagining a scenario where there are two people in my mind, and they have equal levels of strength, skill sets, business acumen, etc, etc. And these two people, let’s say, they are going to want to climb the corporate ladder.

Alper Rozanes
And I believe when the time comes, that there will be a fine edge that lies in front of them. And I think this edge lies in the nuances. And I think that one such nuance that can make or break your professional journey, let’s say is actually the way you present and the way you communicate.

Alper Rozanes
So I think that will be the defining parameters of the conversation that you and I are going to have about my ideal client.

Alper Rozanes
And I have seen from from a lot of years of working with with with people that there are three traits that actually stand out to define them.

Alper Rozanes
It doesn’t mean to say that every single client that I’ve worked with comes with the traits, no, but that’s why we say ideal, we don’t say, I mean, we’re not saying what is the absolute common ground? No, that’s why I’m showing the ideal, okay.

Alper Rozanes
And the first one is actually recognizing this thing that I just talked about recognizing the power of exceptional communication or exceptional presentations.

Matt Krause
Yeah. When you mentioned this to me, you mentioned these these four traits to me before the podcast. And I was wondering, tell me, what do you mean by that?

Alper Rozanes
Well, I mean, you and I are very familiar with the situation of business communication is usually flooded with data and ideas and innovations. And you know what

Matt Krause
True.

Alper Rozanes
I think there is a bridge that can connect all these elements to the people you’re talking to, to the stakeholders to the audience that you’re presenting to.

Alper Rozanes
And it can be your team in the same company, it can be a group of investors, potential partners, whatever, I think the bridge that will be able to connect all these elements is the quality of your presentation.

Alper Rozanes
And when I say that, I’m not just talking about your slides, I’m talking about the entire experience, the entire experience, which I’m sure we have talked about this before, is consisting of actually three things the way you organize your content, the way you design your slides and the way you deliver it.

Alper Rozanes
And in my line of work, an ideal client actually knows that a presentation isn’t just some slides isn’t just some slides that you project on a screen and talk about them.

Alper Rozanes
And I don’t want to dig too much into the storytelling thing here. But I also believe that yes, it is actually a storytelling tool. And they recognize that mastering this tool can be a game changer. And it has a potential, it has the power to set them apart from the crowd and actually position them as leader may be a strong word, but I would say it can position them as communicators making a difference.

Matt Krause
Ah, yeah.

Alper Rozanes
So I think that will be the first step they recognize they recognize this power and they respect it.

Matt Krause
And then you also mentioned a point number two, and when I asked you about point number two, you said that the summary of point number two was understand that this is not an overnight process, and that it’s a journey of mastery, and you’re going to reap the benefits for the rest of your life or for years at least. So what did you mean by that?

Alper Rozanes
What I meant was understanding that we are not born with good communication skills. I mean, it’s not to say that we never had them but when I look at good communicators, I don’t believe most of them were born with it. I don’t think it’s a talent that we come to this world with.

Alper Rozanes
But I think it’s a skill set that we can acquire throughout time throughout a lot of repetitions, rehearsals and practicing and this journey is never achieved overnight.

Alper Rozanes
I mean, you know, the famous saying Rome wasn’t built in a day. I mean, a little bit of a cliche, but I don’t think you can become a good communicator, a competent communicator and impactful presenter overnight.

Alper Rozanes
So it’s not a work that’s going to last a few hours, we’re not going to have one day, six hours in a corporate meeting room, and you’re not going to turn into a good presenter. It demands dedication, practice. And in my experience, I see that it’s requires also a lot of iterations.

Alper Rozanes
So the ideal client in my case, is actually someone who appreciates the significance of this journey, and they can welcome feedback and practice relentlessly.

Alper Rozanes
And at the end of the day, they understand that at least the initial stages, let’s say, because we’re trying to create change in the person, we’re trying to create change in the way that they were accustomed to doing things, especially, they appreciate that the initial stages might involve challenges, it’s not going to be a walk in the park, it’s not going to be a piece of cake.

Matt Krause
Yes, oh, go ahead, go ahead.

Alper Rozanes
But the final outcome is, is worth every effort, because you will have you will have, you will be able to present with with confidence, with clarity with charisma, all those things that come with repetition and and working on it.

Matt Krause
So as a as a potential client, so I shouldn’t be thinking, hey, I’m just going to call Alper once, I’m going to send him my slide deck, and I get to shake the dust off my hands and go home and the next day, everything’s going to be cool. And I’m going to be the most awesome presenter ever. So that’s an unrealistic expectation, is that what you’re saying?

Alper Rozanes
Well, I’m hoping they will like my slides, if I if I if I redo them. And I can almost guarantee that they will. I mean, their presentation will be upgraded in terms of visual aspects, of course.

Alper Rozanes
But when you set the bar that high that that requires work. And it’s not just overnight, it’s going to take practice, and it’s going to take sessions.

Alper Rozanes
Of course, this is not to say that we need to work at least five years, because before you feel confident on stage, of course, that’s not the case. But it’s not going to happen overnight.

Alper Rozanes
That’s the that’s the that may seem like the negative part. But the positive part about that is once you get those skills, they will stay with you, I believe throughout the rest of your life.

Alper Rozanes
Let’s say you have this important board meeting coming up in three months, and we work together and we work together diligently and you become very good at presenting, you become very good at communicating yourself. And you ace that meeting, when that meeting is over, those skills won’t go anywhere, they will stay with you, they will stay with you for the rest of your life and you will be able to enjoy them, put them into practice with with any encounter that you find yourself in.

Alper Rozanes
So it is an investment in terms of time while in terms of money as well. But it’s an investment that pays off very well in the long run, while in the short term and in the long run as well.

Matt Krause
Okay. And then point number three. Can I ask you about point number three?

Alper Rozanes
Yes.

Matt Krause
I am totally wondering what you mean by this. Because I thought wow, this sounds really fascinating. But I don’t know what Alper means by this. You said a recognize a fine line between persuasion and fit. And I’m reading that and wondering, what does Alper mean by that? So So tell me more. What do you mean?

Alper Rozanes
Well, what I mean by that is this mindset change that I myself experienced in the last several years. And because I mean, you and I have similar backgrounds, especially in Toastmasters or speaking clubs, where it was very important to become a persuasive speaker, it was very important to be able to convince other people and I am guilty of that, too.

Alper Rozanes
I mean, this is not to say that it’s a crime. But let’s say it’s a communication style. And I now look back and think that I was guilty of practicing that as well.

Alper Rozanes
But I believe I strongly believe that there’s a subtle difference between trying to win an audience over through persuasion. And on one side and on the other side, genuinely, honestly, gauging assessing if there’s a match between what you will be talking to them about what you will be proposing to them. I mean, of course, the presentation will most certainly include the proposition and to see if there is a match between what you will be proposing and their their needs, their own needs, the audience’s needs.

Matt Krause
So let me see if I’m following you correctly so far. So you’re saying it would be an unrealistic expectation of mine. If I’m like, Okay, well, I brought Alper in and he’s going to teach me how to make everybody follow me to the ends of the earth, and I’ll be the most persuasive person that ever walked in the history of mankind I’ll be the most persuasive person ever. So that you’re saying that that would be an unrealistic expectation. Is that correct?

Alper Rozanes
Matt, if I could do that, if that were the case, you and I would not be doing this podcast. We would not be recording this episode. But no, that will be that would be a grossly misaligned expectation.

Matt Krause
True. If we had that skill we might be if we were doing this podcast, we would be recording it from our private Lear jets, right?

Alper Rozanes
Yeah. Sipping mai tais. By the way, I never I have never had a mai tai, so I just know the reference I don’t know what the drink is about.

Alper Rozanes
But yeah, in this case, going back to the client, I think I find that my ideal client, let’s say, at least sees this difference between persuasion and, and authenticity. I’m not saying that they cannot be together. But I understand that persuasion is, let’s say, essential components of presenting and talking confidently, but I don’t think it should be at the expense of being authentic and not trying to find if there’s a real fit between what you’re proposing and what the audience is.

Matt Krause
And then point number four, and we’ve talked about this a little bit before, but I want to hear a little bit more about it today. You’ve mentioned for point number four, that the client should understand that a no today is not a no forever. Did I get that right?

Alper Rozanes
Yes. And again, like the previous point, I was also guilty of thinking that every conversation should end with a yes, or signed deal or a sale, etc. And this is something that I usually bring up with, with my clients when we work on their sales pitches or sales presentations.

Alper Rozanes
This is more about it’s connected to the idea of persuasion that we talked about, but it’s more relevant to the world of sales.

Alper Rozanes
And I believe, I believe I started believing recently in the last again, several years, not all the time that not every conversation, not every presentation ends with an immediate collaboration.

Alper Rozanes
And I think that’s perfectly the that’s perfectly fine. And the most important thing I believe is to is the perspective that we bring into these, let’s say conversations now, and I think the word I had used, the phrase I had just before was a no, today doesn’t mean and no, forever.

Alper Rozanes
And if we can appreciate the value of the say, keeping an open communications channel to nurture the relationship and staying receptive, let’s say to potential future collaboration and potential future opportunities, I think it would create a much stronger bond, a much stronger connection between me as a presenter and between the audience whom I will not be pushing towards getting a yes.

Alper Rozanes
So a no today definitely doesn’t mean a no forever. And I think it’s in our mutual interest as a presenter, as a speaker and as the audience as well, to come to terms with that.

Matt Krause
So again, with one of Matt, I guess, this is this is becoming kind of a Matt’s learjet questions. We could shorthand it that way. So okay, so a learjet question for you.

Matt Krause
So if I am a sales manager, and I have the expectation of my salespeople that you’re going to make one call, and you’re going to get a yes or no, and it’s going to be clear cut. And I don’t want you wasting any time on somebody who says no, today, and there is no way that I’m going to let talking to Alper change my mind about that. You would probably if I’m hearing you correctly, you would probably say this is not an ideal client. Is that right?

Alper Rozanes
Well, if there is anyone who can help people achieve that, because it’s an extreme scenario, I am not that person.

Alper Rozanes
Because to me, it’s more about mutual interests, and maintaining long term relationships. And I’m not saying that you cannot do these and get a yes, at every single call that you make, of course, maybe it’s possible, but I don’t think I will be the right person to guide you in that direction.

Alper Rozanes
I honestly do not believe is probable that probably as much as you would like me to believe. And so I know you would enjoy working with me there.

Matt Krause
Yeah, I was thinking about okay, if there’s a person like that a person who expects and gets a yes on every an immediate Yes, on every presentation, we’re gonna have to buy a third Learjet because not only will Alper have a learjet and Matt will have a learjet but that that sales manager is going to have a learjet too.

Alper Rozanes
Yes, of course, and it’s also ironic that probably you, and I have absolutely no idea about the current market rate of a learjet.

Matt Krause
Yeah, we have no idea.

Alper Rozanes
Or mai tais for that matter.

Matt Krause
We don’t even know what goes into a mai tai. We’re a million miles away from knowing how much a learjet costs. Okay. Well, on that note, so we’ve got to wrap up for today. So thank you very much, Alper.

Alper Rozanes
Thank you. I’ll talk to you next week.

Matt Krause
I’ll talk to you next week. Bye. Bye.